Can letterboxers police themselves?

Can letterboxers police themselves?
Thinking about this problem, could this be the solution?
The 100 club would have to decide on the standard of stamps, containers and proximity of a site to a carpark.
These standards would have to be publicised.
The 100 club would then pin point the problem areas such as Pew Tor, 4winds etc.
These problem areas would have a “Letterbox Warden” appointed by the 100 club; they would be a local letterboxer who has volunteered to police an area and remove any boxes not up to the standard set by the 100 club.
A list of the wardens should be available so if a letterboxer finds a box not up to standard then the warden can be contacted to remove it.

What does everyone think?

Wardens could find themselves extremely busy!! And all very well if everyone was kitted out with GPS - and re-locating the boxes was therefore easy.

As GPS units are not owned by everyone I think perhaps all responsible boxers should do what they can when they find boxes which are obviously unmaintained or poorly located. At the moment I feel guilty about removing / moving boxes - even if they are in an extremely poor state. However, if the 100 Club had a sort of permission to do this written into their guidelines - I think a large majority of these 'Litter Boxes' could be removed quite quickly. Any re-usable stamps could be re-cycled via The Meet.

I think someone who was an official “100 club warden” wouldn’t have a problem removing a “litterbox”
After a while people would soon know the “100 club standards” so as time went on there would be less to remove.

Although the idea is a good one there is a problem

Boxes are the property of the owner - inappropriate boxes are removed by DNP ie - advertising Cock fighting (yes it still goes on)
or if they are sited in ruined buildings - even I will do that and return them to their owner
I will also remove a box where the the stamp is missing or so badly damaged that it cannot be repaired (also returned to the owner if possible)

If I can I will telephone the owner of the box to let them know the state of their box while it is in situ.

I do not have a problem with fellow Letterboxers removing Litterboxes, I removed a few last year. You just have to satisfy yourself what you are doing is right for the image of the hobby, who wants to find tupperware boxes with paper mache books and stamps missing.

May be we draw a forum guide line list up on what should be removed and what should not.

What ever you do remember to make contact with the owner if you can and if you think it is a registered box get it put in the updates.

The one we found last year had a broken box two water logged books no stamps of any kind and an A4 laminated sheet with a barely legible tel no.
(one point there if you do laminate you contact details put the phone number right in the middle, it will take longer for the Dartmoor weather to get to it, which it will do) It wasn't till I got home and started peeling the pages back I discovered it was two boxes. the owner seemed to have forgotten about it anyway

The Sly Fox wrote: Why don't we all put the codes of conduct on the inside of the visitors book of each letterbox we site. Maybe even extend it to be another addition to the rules so that all 100 Club members start doing the same. That way, any unsuspecting finder will know what is expected of them as box hunters and/or owners. Just a thought but it might help a little.

That sounds like an excellent idea

I agree about ther codes of conduct printed within each box book, mind you some of the books are so small it would be difficult to do.

Dizzy

The smallest I can the clues down to and still being legible is two sides of A5

Hi!
I'm pretty sure I posted a reply previously in this forum - seems to have disappeared! Hope I didn't say anything to upset anyone or be too contentious - if so, it wouldn't have been meant and I offer my apologies.

I could be wrong, of course!!

Regards,
Generation Gap
(Howard of Howard n Sue)

hi generation gap,

i don't think anyone would have deleted your message (hope not anyway). is it possible that you clicked the 'preview' button instead of 'submit', or something?

tomp

Hi, tomp.

Many thanks for the reply.

Think it was just me being particularly dense (or the onset of Alzheimer's!!??). Or possibly too much (or not enough) alcohol!!

Regards,
Generation Gap
(Howard of Howard n Sue)

I don't actually think that putting the code of conduct into boxes would necessarily work - we all know boxers who have been doing it for a long time who have put boxes in places that they shouldn't such as walls or banks of dry leats.

Having started on the letterbox game in the late 1970s / early 1980s I have seen much change. The explosion of the 100 club to the 200 club and then 1000 club and whatever it is now.

With this explosion came the breakup of the 100 club membership into non-100 club groups who disagreed with the phylosophy of Godfrey and Tony as well as others. The proliferation of roadside boxes or rubbish designs did not help.

The self policing resulted in many non-100 club boxes disappearing and there being disharmony amongst all letterboxers. Surely you must learn from the past and understand that no amount of policing is going to stop people establishing litterboxes or inappropriately sited boxes. This is all human nature.

The Stationary Traveller wrote:The proliferation of roadside boxes or rubbish designs did not help.

I hate to say this, but I take exception to that statement. Perhaps you can try and qualify it with detail of what (to your opinion) qualifies a design as rubbish or not?

Regardless of when whomever started boxing, please, PLEASE don't do the "purist" thing!

The way I see it is that the moor belongs to everybody, even to those that cannot stand it, and yes, yes are such people. Obviously I'm using the word belong in a metaphorical rather than Land Registry sense here!

Some of us love the moor and suffer withdrawal symptoms when not visiting it often enough. Some of us views letterboxing as a good excuse to be out and about on the moor, as opposed to Dartmoor being a handy place to do letterboxing.

To some of us the focus is and will always remain on the moor and not on some letterbox, however much pleasure we may obtain from seeking out and hopefully finding letterboxes.

Some of us understand the huge economic benefit letterboxers bring to Dartmoor and surrounds - a benefit that allows people to live in the area. In economic sense it doesn't matter whether or not a letterboxer only uses shop-bought stamps, or delicate hand-carved exquisite creations.

So please, step back a moment from your purist idealism and look at what is best for the moor first, then what (to your opinion) is best for letterboxing.

The moor was there long before letterboxing started, and will be there long after letterboxing faded away (as all things eventually do).

The proliferation of roadside boxes or rubbish designs did not help.

I am afraid I cannot quite see how the actual design of a stamp or putting it closer to the road is making the moor suffer as a result. One could argue that the less distance people have to go in to get a box, the less damage may be done to birds nesting etc., and you are keeping the genuine heart of the moor or the sensitive areas unscathed. Does it need to be a five mile trek, up to your waist in peaty water to get a box before you are properly `letterboxing`? Besides which, if boxes are not very far in and are left untended there is far more chance of them being found and removed than probably the hundreds that are buried in Cut Hill, which will possibly never be retrieved as people lose interest and give up `boxing, but cannot be bothered to walk that far to take their boxes back in

We have in our series both boxes that are a long way in, and those that are close to the road. We have done this deliberately so that some of the letterboxers that we know, who have been `boxing for years and are unable now to go too far, can still enjoy a day collecting stamps. We look after the boxes, and we replace the stamps when some nasty individual who think they have the right to impose their opinions on others in this underhand and cowardly way see fit to take them.
If someone produces a stamp that is amateurish or not pertaining to Dartmoor, then as long as they look after it, and do not site it somewhere unsuitable, then surely it is for the person collecting them to decide wether to go after them or not.

Letterboxing is, I thought, supposed to be fun and just a hobby.
Children love it, and therefore probably enjoy collecting the cartoon character type stamps sneered at by the purists. Isn`t there room for everyone to enjoy their own type of letterboxing, and shouldn`t the emphasis be placed on siting boxes properly, and maintaining them afterwards.

Well that has provoked a comprehensive response from Nano Ruler and m&s. I don't wish to add to their comments but I fully endorse them in their entirety.
It's a lot easier to type as well.

Jones family on tor wrote:Well that has provoked a comprehensive response from Nano Ruler and m&s. I don't wish to add to their comments but I fully endorse them in their entirety.
It's a lot easier to type as well.

I also agree

Hold on here people :
First of all - Welcome to The Stationary Traveller

Everyone in here has a right to voice an opinion and there are a great many things the The Stationary Traveller has made.
One of which is the proliferation of litterboxes on the roadside - I agree the majority of these boxes are cheap commercial rubbish that seems to be dominating a large part of my collection. To give an example I found five copies of the SAME STAMP with different names - Hence this is where I can see the purity of a true letterboxer desire.
It wasn't that long ago all the stamps were UNIQUE either hand cut or comissioned by the owner, and this is where I think the train of thought is meant to go.

The other point that was raised is about the Tony and Godfrey effect, now I know a lot of "old Time boxers" who never agreed with the 100 club as it stands today with how popular it has become. Years ago it was ALL WORD OF MOUTH and none of these charity walks and clue sheets were either written out typed out or a clue for the next box could be found in the container of the box you just found.

Also remember that to get 100 stamps was an achievement back then - now it is so easy it is untrue - I reckon I could find 100 stamps in a day if I pushed it hard enough - you allo know which two sites I would hit.
I was at the meet the day Tony Moore agreed to allow WOM boxes into the final equation - prior to that as it says non 100 club and 100 club. #And in those days I had close on to 20000 clues for WOM boxes (but no car)

I also agree that a lot of boxers give up and never reclaim their boxes but usually their freinds will go and get them for them... however in this day and age it sometimes isn't worth going to get it because it has been stolen!

Thats my bit on the arguement and remember folks this is a happy forum with all of us having one thing in common the hunt for the letterbox!

Nik, of course everybody's entitled to their own opinion.

Even as a newbie I would still prefer not to have some off-the-shelf stamp in a letterbox, and I think virtually everybody would feel that way.

Still, The Stationary Traveller made a statement about the proliferation of rubbish designs. Now had he/she stated they object to all the off-the-shelf stamps, it would have been an entirely different point.

But they didn't - and I stand by what I said: I'd very much like The Stationary Traveller to explain what constitutes a "rubbish design".

Surely then the answer is to not worry too much about collecting as many stamps as possible, but to collect the stamps series from letterboxers who you know will always put out quality and relevant stamps to Dartmoor.
Go for quality not quantity, and speaking up as someone who does sometimes put a box close to the road, and also sometimes puts out the dreaded charity walk, my artwork takes hours to do, it is unique, it is Dartmoor related, and the stamps are made of rubber not polymer, so that the quality is superior and costs us a lot of money to have made, therefore one should not really generalize, as I expect there are stamps buried deep in Cut Hill that are of the sort criticised and `rubbish designs` whatever they are.

May I take the opportunity to explain a rubbish design.
It is a rubber that has been hacked as opposed to being carved - I know someone who can draw beautifully and create beautiful art but his carving leaves a lot to be desired yet his stamps are are not the worst I have seen.

A stamp I collected many many years ago I use as a bench mark (one day I will find out what it is and tell you) for badness I just remember I found it near Brians money box stamp - it is the worst carved stamp I have ever seen and it was in the catalogue. Rubbers that have had the name of something crudely hacked into it creating a negative I don't like and call rubbish whereas the opposite where most of the rubber has been removed, creating a positive image, are infinitely better.

See, Nik, that's where personal choice comes into it:
I'd much rather have a crudely hacked but certainly unique stamp than a well-made but generic off-the-shelf stamp.

At least the person that "crudely hacked" the rubber put in some effort.

I must admit, I do like to find even a basic attempt at a hand carved stamp, at least someone has had a go at making something unique. Sorry Nik, not something I can agree on for a change.

Dizzy

And me I'm afraid. Although I hear your comments Nik, I do feel if someone has gone to the time and trouble to make their own stamp, I take my hat off to them. And people have to start somewhere.

I do appreciate the comments made about too many shop bought stamps. However, again, if it is a young person just starting out on a life of letterboxing, then let's not discourage them.

That sort of regimented approach would be a serious deterrent to some of us. Part of the reason I love the Moor is that when I'm walking I'm free from the never-ending interference from the nanny-state and self-appointed control freaks who want to control how we do everything. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

What ever the stamp is. It is like every day you take the good with the bad, but all still counts on the way to 1 million stamps!!!!!!

You will always find one really good stamp on a walk that you will like, even with loads of shop bought stamps, what ever everyones opinion who ever puts a box out still has to pay for it and make the effort to place it out under a rock.

So I would like to ask two questions,

How many boxes does Staionary Traveller have out on the moor?

and

What are the designs like?

I look forward to the reply and searching for one so long as it is not to far away from a road HA HA

Number 70, I don't think that's a relevant question. I don't have any boxes out on the Moor either. As for artistic merit, my artistic ability stops at drawing stick figures and if you're lucky they will have the correct number of legs!

Part of the reason I love the Moor is that when I'm walking I'm free from the never-ending interference from the nanny-state and self-appointed control freaks who want to control how we do everything.

Amen to that, cranmere..........

Sorry, you lost me Number 70. Am I just being dumb?

Nik - KOTM wrote:May I take the opportunity to explain a rubbish design.
It is a rubber that has been hacked as opposed to being carved - I know someone who can draw beautifully and create beautiful art but his carving leaves a lot to be desired yet his stamps are are not the worst I have seen.

A stamp I collected many many years ago I use as a bench mark (one day I will find out what it is and tell you) for badness I just remember I found it near Brians money box stamp - it is the worst carved stamp I have ever seen and it was in the catalogue. Rubbers that have had the name of something crudely hacked into it creating a negative I don't like and call rubbish whereas the opposite where most of the rubber has been removed, creating a positive image, are infinitely better.

If you don't like the stamp DONT COLLECT IT!!
I think that your reply is a little rude.
I would much rather take of a copy of a hand cut stamp than a shop made stamp with just a place name on it. Or a set of "Walk" stamps that are excactly the same!!!

Hi Gemma i agree with you no matter what the stamp looks like shop bought or hand carved its nice to get the print of it

Fulchet

I asked the questions because of the statement about 'roadside boxes and rubbish designs', from his knowledge he seams an experienced boxer, so I thought it a pertinent question to ask having identified the above. may be I have gone off on a tangent again.

Also
Anyone who has a go at carving there own stamps (even if the results are not to everyones liking) should be encouraged, practice makes perfect, I have had two goes and I am still rubbish. but I was tempted to put them out anyway but botled it, maybe this year.

Thanks for explaining Number 70. I think my brain went to sleep before.

I look forward to finding your homemade stamp once you place it out.

NUMBER 70 wrote:I have had two goes and I am still rubbish.

Just like myself then #70
I still have a poorly carved stamp out on Calveslake Tor. It has very, very few visitors (unless they thought it unworthy of a personal stamp). But, I was only about twelve at the time. I always admire others' attempts ... in fact they are my favourite stamps of all !!

Im having ago this weekend no.70, well thats if the weather is bad.... ill let you know how i get on, ill take a photo and post it.