Speeding

Hi All

I see on the local news yesterday that speeding once again has hit the headlines over the roads of Dartmoor. One such car was clocked at over 125mph. Also 8 ponies have been hit and killed so far this month, With this mind, the powers that be are considering erecting fences along both sides of the road from Princetown running west off the moors. I think I can say that we don't want to see a barrier put along the length of that road.....Do We?

A worried S&S.

I would rother see speed cameras on the moor ,there everywhere els
and I`m all for them too.
I`ve seen many a car speeding on that road, also beaing a biker im worried as well

It was really shocking to hear about the speeding on Dartmoor and we use this stretch of road a lot when we are on Dartmoor. Cars have over taken us a few times when driving along and cannot believe it. Our son was up there in March and he had someone overtake him. Do not understand why people want to speed when the views are fantastic.

It would be a shame to erect fences but would also prefer to see speed cameras instead.

No don't want a fence. That's like saying; ok it's safe to speed now, the road is yours.

I know this will be an unpopular comment, but as it is IMPOSSIBLE to get people to slow down on Dartmoor roads, as much as I would hate it, I would prefer a fence if it means the animals will not be injured or killed.
If you have a speed camera people will do what they do everywhere and slow down for it, then speed up when past it, and a few one off speed traps will not deter everyone.
There is a fence running both sides of the roads between Kingsett Down and Black Down, which keeps the animals safely contained.

I have in the past written to the Governor at Dartmoor Prison to ask why a lot (no I am not saying ALL) of prison officers coming off shift often overtake us going very fast on these roads, but got a snotty reply from her saying that they were all good drivers!!! and able to control their vehicles in all situations, and that she was not able to control what they did in their own time.
When I went in the Visitors Centre to complain about speeding cars, after having picked up a dead sheep from the road, and having made the comment as above, I was told `you are not the first person to complain about them doing that`.

It often annoys me when people overtake me on the moors as there is no consideration. Even the floral display on that stretch of road where there were human deaths last year has not put anyone off.

The idea of a fence would be a real eye sore. I would rather have to drive over a 100 speed bumps than have the views spoiled!!

If the prison officers are good drivers - which they obviously aren't - they wouldn't speed - but then complacency will have its way! I agree the views are fantastic - but if you see them day after day then the edge wears off

Not all of them are obviously as good as they think as several years ago now we came across one of them who had hit a pony in his mini near Leedon tor early one morning.

m & s Re the attitude of the Prison govenor (women driver no doubt)

I work for a large 'Engineering' company in Cumbria and they go out of their way to promote safe driving in the local community even so far a to issue guide lines to their staff on safe driving on the local fell roads.

Secondly if you are not happy with the ladies attitude write to her boss or even your local MP about her attitude.

But no I would not wish to see a fence erected across the moor.

and one last point. no matter how fast you travel someone behind you always wants to go faster, ie in a 30 zone they want to do 40 try doing 40 in a 30 and they want to do 45, its the same on the motorway.

I take your point No. 70, and I do believe that this lady is no longer there, and someone else has the job now, so she wasn`t quite as good as she thought she was.

I would hate to see a fence across the moor, that is what makes us feel so wonderful, that feeling of being in a little bit of wilderness, but Ifind it so hard to deal with the constant killing and maiming of the animals. One pony who was hit by a car was left lying in the road all night with broken legs and not found till the morning, so yes I would still rather have a fence, than dead animals.

Ironically we drove back over the moor today and got to an accident just after it had happened on the Princetown to Yelverton road. A motor bike travelling very fast hit a car on the corner, writing off the car, and throwing the bike rider about 100 feet down the hill. Bits of his bike broke off and flew through the air, hitting the car in the car park at the side of the road. The driver said he was at the back of the car giving his dog a drink of water when this happened and it narrowly missed him, and the petrol tank of the bike landed close by to him, leaking petrol..
I have no idea if the bike rider survived, he didn`t look too good when we saw him, but surely something can be done to stop people racing across the moor.

Yup, that was around 1-1:30 this afternoon. I got caught in the traffic coming from Yelverton/Dousland. (We may well have passed each other!). The accident was at Devils Elbow - the exact same place where 2 people died last year (between a taxi and motorcycle, although that one was caused by the taxi). You saw the remembrance flowers by the side of the road? I had 3 motorcyclists zoom past me just minutes before, so he/she may well have been the one involved. There seemed to be quite a few of them in Princetown, so obviously some sort of meet going on. You could easily smell the petrol as I drove past. I agree the car was a real mess - looked like the front tyre had been ripped off as well. The motorcycle must have been going really fast to do that.

Later, the Police put up notices that the road was closed. The notices were at Princetown and at Dousland (by the Burrator Inn pub), so places such as Yennadon, Sharpitor, Black Tor and Devils Elbow/Bridge were probably quite quiet this afternoon. It was an awfully long part of the road to be closed. I haven't seen anything on the local news (yet).

Okay, so replace the damaged car with a pony... I'll let your imagination do the rest. What about fencing along part of the road, such as Devils Elbow, to force animals to cross the road where it is straight and drivers can more easily see them? It won't do anything about speeding, but it avoids drivers - even those doing 30 or 40mph - from being surprised at seeing an animal in the road.



John.

Good point John, that would certainly help wouldn`t it.
They did the same sort of thing with a bit of fencing just as you go on to the moor at Peek Hill, as previously the sheep used to run straight out from behind the wall, but now the fence makes them go further down where they can be seen.

Looks like we were both in the same place at the same time today.
Wasn`t it odd that the accident was almost where the remembrance flowers were?
For the amount of damage done, the distance he was thrown, and the fact that the bike was in pieces he must have been going really fast, and as there were several other bikers there also, you cannot help but conjecture wether or not they may have been racing each other.
I know someone who says that bikers do go up to Dartmoor to speed as there is a very good chance there will be no police, speed traps ,cameras etc. to catch them. I do not personally know if this is true however.

m & s wrote:Good point John, that would certainly help wouldn`t it.

Hmm, maybe. Thinking about it though the sheep/ponies may simply walk to the end of the fencing and then decide to walk back along the road next to the fencing. In some respects making it worse, since they cannot then get off the road immediately. There used to be some post and rail fencing at Devils Bridge. It has now pretty much gone, but the wooden posts are still there. Perhaps it was a failed experiment to see what the animals would do, and they did as I suggest?

m & s wrote:Wasn`t it odd that the accident was almost where the remembrance flowers were?

Not sure about 'odd', but perhaps 'unsurprising'? You cannot see around some of these bends, so you must slow down. If you don't, or for whatever reason end up on the wrong side of the road, why do people assume there will be nothing coming the other way? Of course there may be. This is just another case of it happening.

m & s wrote:you cannot help but conjecture wether or not they may have been racing each other.
I know someone who says that bikers do go up to Dartmoor to speed as there is a very good chance there will be no police, speed traps ,cameras etc. to catch them. I do not personally know if this is true however.

No, I don't know if it is true as such. However, simply walking from Devils Bridge to Hart Tor, or along the old railway line, it is quite easy to hear that some motorbikes, and some cars, are going fast. The engine noise gives it away. I have heard it many times - and that's just during the day.



John.

Can't really comment on the good or bad driving of women prison officers - they sound a scary breed to me - but the idea of fences mentoned in some of the earlier posts seems like health and safety gone mad - for me when you go over the cattle grid on onto the open moor I always get a little bit excited in anticipation of the walk to come if we are all fenced in then we will loose the sence of feedom

I have to put my hand up and say I was one of the bikers that have used Dartmoor as a race track!!! I was very young and at a time speed cameras were not really around, the roads for bikes are good as you can see for a far way but if you have an object in the road you have no chance!!

I see myself as very lucky that I never had a bad accident but seeing one made me change, we use to ride like nutters and I can only think it has not changed for quite a lot of bikers. All that can happen is more police presence, poss speed bumps, (a fence would only make it feel safer!!! for the motorists and bikes!!) and a high profile TV campaign with graphic images that are made to shock and make peole take stock about there actions and what could or eventually happen.

Life is one fast pace for some and this goes over to their driving !! you will not change these people but you may well re educate them to think where and when they speed. Its a hard one????

Some good news to report; for those that haven't seen the local papers, the motorcyclist in the accident seen by M&A on Saturday apparently survived, saved by his leathers they say.

Bardwell

What I am about to say is probably going to sound callous as hell!
I have no sympathy for motorcyclists who insist on breaking the speed limit at stupid speeds - I mean speeds over 70mph on winding roads. It might be fun for the biker who feels free screaming across the moor, and it is ok until he causes a major accident.
This stupid behavior causes a lot of grief for those involved, not to mention the cost, both financially and emotionally. I don't want to see fences erected along that stretch of road, for several reasons the main one would be to encourage more speed from those who are irresponsible and cause more accidents in the long run because of that speed. Secondly, it does spoil the view, and finally it would leave me feeling isolated from the moor.

This reminds me of a time a couple of years ago when two motorcyclists were racing each other across the moor when an old man drove out of a junction to turn right onto Yelverton to Plymouth road. When he started his manouver the road was clear, however before he had even reached the centre of the road these two motorcyclists had come on him so quickly both managed to avoid the car but in the process both had high sided their bikes (thrown out the side of the bike) one landed in the road and broke his leg - the other landed in a ditch and broke his neck - killing him instantly. A witness said she was driving down the road at about 50 to 60 mph when these bikes went past her as if she was stationary, the estimated speed was in excess of 120mph, though the surviving biker said they were only doing 70 mph (as he would say that). However the coroner said there was no blame on the driver of the car.

Later unknown to everyone, there came to light a long term effect on the driver of the car as it seriously affected his judgement of traffic on the road, he shortly afterwards gave up his driving license, denying him his freedom to drive on theroads because of doubt. This broke his heart.

How do I kow this? That driver of the car was my dad! Scared witless by two idiotic motorcyclists!

Rant warning!

Speaking as a holder of a RoSPA silver qualification, having driven a truck professionally, been a biker for many years. driven everything from a Citroen 2CV to a performance tuned Subaru Impreza turbo and never having had either a speeding ticket or had an accident, I detest the 'speed kills' propaganda. It doesn't; inappropriate speed kills. There are places on the Moor where it is safe to drive very fast indeed, there are others where 20mph is far too fast for safety.

I'm not trying to defend the idiot racers, but just because someone does 70mph that doesn't mean that they are necessarily driving in an unsafe fashion, nor does driving at 40mph automatically make them a safe or good driver.

A blanket 40mph limit can encourage the mindless idiots to drive without thinking, how many times have you encountered a 40mph moron driving along at 40 through thick mist or on icy roads? Or who continues at 40 through a village or past animals without slowing?

On the Moor one of the biggest improvements occurs when they clear the gorse and bracken back from the edges of the roads simply because the animals are then more easily visible.