Quick Intro

Hi

I have been looking at this forum for the last few days, and knew I needed to join and participate.

I plan to go back packing with my 7 year old son in late Spring and will be looking to spend 2 nights out on the moors wild camping. Letterboxing to my mind, will bring a thrill dimension to both my son and me.

Whilst I have never done this with my son before I am going to ensure that I put safety first. We have site camped since my son was aged 3 and I have done trial runs with the backpacks in winter conditions over the past 3 months. I accept that conditions in London are very different from Dartmoor, but I am not looking to wild camp until May.

I am not too sure of the distance we will be able to cover but I am going to create a circular route with the possibility of an opt out after 1 night.

Obviously if I am going to go letterboxing for the 1st time with a child, it would make sense to try and ensure we are able to find some on our 2 night/3 day trip.

I would really appreciate feedback on where I should start from. I initially was going to head out of Postbridge and create a circular route back.

I am able to map read and confident in my ability to keep us both safe, however I do accept that respect for the moors is paramount and for that reason I make this posting.

I want to make this a trip to remember for all the right reasons!

I don't want to be a killjoy, but 2 things should be remembered ?
the first Dartmoor is wild moorland with all it's dangers and not for the inexperenced to spent 2nights and 3 days "wild" camping on the moor, Weather conditions can change very rapidly from sun to thick mist in very short period of time ( 20 mins) I have known Snow (blizzard/white out ) in June ? in the higher parts. Great for the experenced but for a 7 year old ?
two, wild camping is not approved of ( ?) on the moor,
My suggestion is do as everyone else book into a campsite on the moor, establish a base camp and do day walks, either from the site or by short car journeys, and that way you have and eliment of safefy and varied walks. Without carry huge packs.
I would also suggest to keep to the South Moor, for the following reasons, lower, milder and more accessable,
A site I have used is just below Pew Tor with access to the moor just a few '00 yards up the hill, with plenty of stamps, or you have the Plume of Feathers with access out the back door , as well as plenty of others around.

legend of the moor wrote:wild camping is not approved of ( ?) on the moor,

Whilst I really do appreciate your concerns, I am not happy with the above statement. Whilst you may not approve, it seems Dartmoor National Park Authority are quite okay with 'wild camping'


I quote from their website

Backpacking and sleeping wild on Dartmoor is tremendous under clear skies. Camping for one or two nights on the open land on Dartmoor is perfectly acceptable provided that you choose your spot sensibly and don't pitch your tent on farmland, on moorland enclosed by walls, within 100 metres of a road, on flood plains or on archaeological sites


and again

Back Pack Camping

# All Dartmooor, even the open moorland is owned by someone. The owners of this unenclosed moorland do not normally object to backpack camping. You will not fall foul of local byelaws as long as you keep to the simple common sense camping code:
# Do not camp on moorland enclosed by walls, on the road side or within 100 metres of the road, anywhere within sight of a road or house, in reservoir catchment areas, on very small commons surrounded by farmland, on areas of common which are heavily used for informal recreation, these areas can be viewed at schedule 2 of the Byelaws.
# Dealing with waste. Litter, human excrement and waste water are all pollutants. They cause offence and can be dangerous. Take all litter home and deal with other waste in a sensible way.
# Avoiding damage. Don't light fires. Stand camping stoves on a rock to avoid scorching the grass. Don't over use a site. Avoid pitching on the mark left by another tent. Don't stay on any site more than two nights. Stay in small groups and away from other parties.Many small farms welcome backpackers and offer simple amenities which make the experience more enjoyable.


I have my backpack/shelter/sleep system down to about 8lb and my son's total carry weight is going to be about 5lb so I don't see this as a burden. Of course there will be extra weight to be included for myself including food/stove/change of clothing/kit etc.

I take on board your recommendation with regard to the South moors and will investigate this option as it makes sense.

I'm not looking for an argument, but your posting kinda makes me out to be trying to do something that is not approved. Am I missing the point here?

This is not my personal thoughts, If I had my choice the moors are open for ALL to use,
I'm happy and I will delete my comment if you wish but think of this :
the moor is used by hundreds daily and weekend by thousands, most if they stay on Dartmoor use reconised sites with toilet facilities etc or Bunk houses B&B etc. Look at the certain areas after 10 tors (2000 teenagers on the moor) most are good.
If we all exercised the right to wild camp, and during the summer the numbers on the moor swell to 5, 10, 20,000 on peak days think of the outcome.
You only have to look at certain areas ie Haytor for errossion, Camping and adhoc toilet arrangements do cause problems ?
My suggestion was made on the grounds of 1 SAFETY, 2 ENJOYMENT FOR ALL ,3 AREAS FOR GOOD EASY LETTERBOXING for the inexperenced
As I said I will withdraw my whole posting if you wish ? No offence meant.

i agree with legend on this but like wild camping as well, i would give a suggestion (only a suggestion). how about camping at the bottom of widgery cross. As then if the weather comes in, there is a camp site next to the pub which is only about a mile away from the cross and is off one of the tracks meeting the main raod.. then you can camp wild, have a pub close by for some warm food and a camp site if you get really bad weather....

think on, ? numbers,
Why do 10 tor groups practice on the moor from Oct - May thousands of teenagers, they camp on campsites ?
Why do Scout groups and other youth groups again thousands of youngsters every week of the year use camp sites and bunk houses.

Why ? safety and to save the moorland for all to use.

If you want to camp wild go ahead, don't take advice, I've only walked the moor for 30 years

legend of the moor

Thanks for all your advice. As my plan is to go wild camping with my son, I thought the 'natural place' to go was the moors as it is actually allowed rather than a 'grey area' throughout most parts of England. Taking on board your seemingly vast experience with the moors I believe it might be sensible to look elsewhere.

I do understand what you are saying and perhaps it is best to leave Dartmoor letterboxing for another time rather than trying to incorporate it into my hiking trip with my son.




moorland wizard


Nice idea, but as you can see from the above paragraph I have really been put off of the whole idea in this region.

Don't give up on Dartmoor, it's a wonderful place to visit, anywhere where you wild camp has the same impact on the area, the advantage of campsites are "they are managed". but some are far wilder than others.
From experence both in the UK and abroad if you pick you campsite with care (avoiding the caravans) there's little difference between a wild site and the wild other than safety. Which with a 7 year old you should consider.
Letterboxing is a great hobby, and you easily get hooked,
looking at a base on a site over 3 days you could cover 4-5 grid squares each 1k a day, ie 12-15 sq k, 3 different parts of the moor
but on a round robin trip with pitching camp etc and carrying extra kit I think you may be lucky and cover 10 sq k
both of the above takes into account the rambling zig zag nature of letterboxing as it's easier to measure by the sq not like hiking (distance)

My wild camping experience WILL be a 'leave no trace' experience and for that reason will have NO impact on the area. That to me is part of the experience, and is something I have firmly installed in my son's way of thinking.


The difference in areas covered between a base site and wild camping was of no consequence to me as I was not looking to break any records in distance covered or letterboxes found.

I am quite able to understand what being 'in the wild' with a 7 year old means, and with him being my flesh & blood, I would hope that I could have all realistic situations covered.

You obviously object to the whole idea of 'wild camping' and that I respect. However it is a bit of a shame, as I can't help thinking that a person with over 30 years experience may have been the very person that could have really assisted me to actually partake in what I wanted to do rather than what he thinks I ought to do.

I have no objections to you to you camping in the wild with your son, and it seems from your recent posting that you are far more responsible than what you implied with your original.
I have been taking youngsters from age 8 onto the moor over the last 30 years and my initial thoughts with your original posting was that I thought you did not realise the risks. We have all seen things on Dartmoor where people have put themelves at risk, and this is something to be avoided and I'm afraid I jumped the gun with yourself and put you into this group.
So make your plans, assess and minimise the risks and go for it. Go wild if you wish, if North Moor check the firing, and avoid military debris (live firing range) if South Moor have a great time.
Regarding distances covered, Dartmoor is only 25x25 miles with Roads criss crossing so you are never much more than 6/7 miles from a road or access point, but thats a long way in bad weather.
So good luck and have a great time.

Hi having read this thread, I feel I should add to the postings. I have walked on the moors for about 30 years and totally agree with Legends comments. Whilst you sound very experienced, have you had experience out 'in the wild' of a large expanse of moorland? There have been many times in the 'summer' when parties have had to be helicopered off the moor, because the weather has changed dramatically, fog has come down and they get lost or bogged down in the many mires around. As Legend has already said, mainly Ten Tors trainers use campsites and bunk houses when training for this event. When the Ten Tors is held, hundreds of the participants camp out overnight 'in the wild', but they are controlled and under the watchful eye of the army. To take even a 13yeard old out into Dartmoor without having been there yourself, could be putting you and especially your son 'at risk'. I would suggest you come down (Dartmoor is the most beautiful place to walk) and book into a campsite, then survey the area, and choose say a long hike with perhaps one night camping. Then at least you will have a bse to return to, and the campsite can monitor your movements as well. Safety is the most important thing here. When I go out, even for a short walk, I always leave my route with my husband and approx time schedules. Once back to the car I ring home to let them know I am off the moor. One last thing - please do not be put off coming down to Dartmoor, whatever you decide to do, I am sure you will enjoy your stay - just sit back and think about where to stay, where you would like to walk, what you are taking, what safety procedures you are putting in place, but most of all, enjoy it.

Hi Lyrrad,

It would be a shame for you not to come down, but all comments so far are worth taking on board.

However there is another side of the coin..........

Dartmoor isn't a vast, hostile, barren, rugged wilderness with unpredictable weather and bottomless bogs. Quite the reverse on all counts.

Come and have a look and make up your own mind

Foxy

Lyrrad wrote:

legend of the moor wrote:wild camping is not approved of ( ?) on the moor,

Whilst I really do appreciate your concerns, I am not happy with the above statement. Whilst you may not approve, it seems Dartmoor National Park Authority are quite okay with 'wild camping'


I quote from their website

Backpacking and sleeping wild on Dartmoor is tremendous under clear skies. Camping for one or two nights on the open land on Dartmoor is perfectly acceptable provided that you choose your spot sensibly and don't pitch your tent on farmland, on moorland enclosed by walls, within 100 metres of a road, on flood plains or on archaeological sites


and again

Back Pack Camping

# All Dartmooor, even the open moorland is owned by someone. The owners of this unenclosed moorland do not normally object to backpack camping. You will not fall foul of local byelaws as long as you keep to the simple common sense camping code:
# Do not camp on moorland enclosed by walls, on the road side or within 100 metres of the road, anywhere within sight of a road or house, in reservoir catchment areas, on very small commons surrounded by farmland, on areas of common which are heavily used for informal recreation, these areas can be viewed at schedule 2 of the Byelaws.
# Dealing with waste. Litter, human excrement and waste water are all pollutants. They cause offence and can be dangerous. Take all litter home and deal with other waste in a sensible way.
# Avoiding damage. Don't light fires. Stand camping stoves on a rock to avoid scorching the grass. Don't over use a site. Avoid pitching on the mark left by another tent. Don't stay on any site more than two nights. Stay in small groups and away from other parties.Many small farms welcome backpackers and offer simple amenities which make the experience more enjoyable.


I have my backpack/shelter/sleep system down to about 8lb and my son's total carry weight is going to be about 5lb so I don't see this as a burden. Of course there will be extra weight to be included for myself including food/stove/change of clothing/kit etc.

I take on board your recommendation with regard to the South moors and will investigate this option as it makes sense.

I'm not looking for an argument, but your posting kinda makes me out to be trying to do something that is not approved. Am I missing the point here?

Yes, but has been said before...
I am a Scouter & have in the past have spent time training on the Moor so that I would be "Qualified" to take out young people.. it was no walk in the park. Tough & the weather can & does change very quickly. That said don't give up but consider base camp off the Moor. I am sure you will enjoy the experiance.

Hi Lyrrad,

I live in London and also have 20 years of experience of walking onDartmoor, if you would like to get together one evening, maybe I could go over some of the finer points of what you are proposing. And also give you some of the experiences I have had in Springtime.

I would not go out on my own with a small child in tow - no matter how enthusiatic - the party should consist of 4 members with at least two responsible adults - this is for safety reasons. If this is your first visit to Dartmoor with your son then the illusion could be created of wildness without compromising safety.

Give us a shout and I am sure something could be arranged

Camp on campsites and walk from them on your first visit, then the second time down wild camp, all the reasons have already been said on here.

Hi

Well I am overwhelmed by the responses, and I don't fancy the role of King Canute.

My last response was that I accept that Dartmoor is not the place for me & my son to wild camp, and that still stands.

I have been looking to wild camp with my son for the last 6 months and that is my intention. Quite obviously I would have to be pretty stupid to fly in the face of all the posters here and insist on doing it on Dartmoor. For that reason I will look elsewhere.

However the nature of myself is to find out what all the fuss is about, and I have pretty much decided that I will visit the area on my own 20/3/09 - 22/3/09 (I might extend by 1 day). I'm not too sure on where I'll sleep after the 1st night [that will be in a room], but it will be dependant on the expected weather and my 1st experiences out on the moor.

I am going to take advantage of Nik's offer and liaise with him/her.

I have already booked August holiday in Spain so Summer is already sorted. However I am taking my son on a 1 night 2 day survival course in New Forest in April. My intention was to then spend a further 2 nights/3 days wild camping (with a hotel room break in between)

My wild camping experience with my son can wait, as can letterboxing in Dartmoor with him.

What I hope to achieve on 20/3-22/3/09 is find out if we would be better off coming to Dartmoor after the New Forest, or whether I should pursue wild camping at that time.

So there you have it.

Perhaps I can meet up with some of the posters here.

Nik is a HIM!

In reply to Foxy,
I agree with you on perfect or near perfect conditions, even in winter, wonderful,
Just returned from day trip yesterday on Hollow tor, one minute you could see the TV Mast only half mile or so away , ten minutes later it was gone., but near perfect conditions when we started out,
Remember back ?
In May ? should be fine, but a few years ago the army evacuated 10 tor expedition of the moor after 15 hour, thousands of young walkers fully equiped (and checked by the army) WHY ?
Because the weather deteriorated so fast (snow)it was considered even under army control and supervision that it was to dangerous to leave people who had trained on Dartmoor for weeks/months beforehand on the moor.
what I am trying to say and other above, be responsible

missed your post as I was just completing my previous, good to hear your plans, and the contact with Nik
Dartmoor is a truely wonderful place some say magical ? Me I just love it.
but I respect it and all it's moods.
Look forward one day to bumping into you, hopfully on the moor Letterboxing with your son

After a bit of offline work it is sorted - so can we please let this one drop?
I have no doubts about Lyyrads abilities to survive out in the wilds but some of your advice is going to be adhered to. Just to be safe!

But thanks to all for your concerns...