Who would like to see the end of 10 figure map references?

I recently did a charity walk and I must admit I had left my compass at home... so armed with a GPS (and spare batteries) I did the walk, I did notice something while doing the walk - becauase of the GPS I barely looked at the magnificent scenery I spent most of my time looking at an electronic arrow!

Now the question I ask is would you like to see the 10 figure map reference reduced to 6 figures and encourage the use of sighting compasses again?

The benefits of this would be getting out to see the moor in its full glory, learning how to use a compass and probably the best news would be the The Dartmoor letterbox thief wouldn't steal as many boxes.

I am not saying that the GPS shouldn't have a place as a navigational aid, but what I am saying is we shouldn't have so much reliance on technology.

what I am saying is we shouldn't have so much reliance on technology.

I am not sure it is a reliance on Tech or a choice of to use it or not!! Personally I use both a compass/map and a GPS Prehaps the poll should also have that as an option

Colin

Kountry Kit at the meet yesterday were selling off their last few Silva 54 sighting compasses. He said Silva were not going to make any more because now that the GPS's were getting cheaper, people were buying those instead of sighting compasses. Can't see how that will help our hobby - better to have both really. What would be the point of doing a charity walk as Nik says with 'head down watching an arrow'. I tend to use both, sighting compass but when in difficulty with weather/fog/mist etc.. have GPS on for backup. A walk can then still be done in very little visibility.

I use both.
When I initially visit an area, I look for all the boxes with GPS's first. Then, on subsequent visits, I look for letterboxes that need compass work to find.
I think it's human nature to get the 'easy' ones first. Why traipse around the moor with a compass and only get a few stamps, when with a GPS, you can usually get a lot more.
I find I get a better sense of achievement when finding a box using a compass than I do with a GPS. Even more so, if it takes a few attempts.
I think it is very important to be able to read a map and compass and be able to use them together.
The GPS makes us lazy, and using a compass to find a box becomes a bit of a chore. Just being out there, on the moor, is enough.
You don't have to watch the 'arrow', we all do though and end up in all sorts of rough ground. Just see where the arrow points, guesstimate the distance, put GPS away and set off. I tend to walk past the box, which amuses me.
In the end it's down to personal choice, and both methods have theiir merits.

I only box with a sighting compass, and prefer that. I noticed though that this created difficulties with a couple of the charity walks last year in that their clues seemed to be geared to GPS. As a result you might be in an open area, and find all the sighting clues were on landmarks a mile or more away which is to far away to get an accurate fix. Wasted a lot of time going in ever decreasing circles!

Duckpool

I like 10 fig grid. very handy walking with a small child in tow. We get to right area then set small child hunting.

We use both. GPS is here to stay. We think you can look at the magnificent scenery and walk in the general direction of the electronic arrow. The old system was much more difficult, in fact with some you get only the grid square number eg 76?? 67?? that does make it
very hard, so we use both and we vote for continued use of GPs many of the box clues don't use it. Personal choice use it or don't.

i use both,the more numbers the better,the only bad thing is that the bloody letterbox thiefs can find the boxes with little effort.
i bought the new book and it is lacking gps numbers,never mind its the taking part that counts and meeting great people like the old nog what a star.
cheers all ITS SUMMER BRING IT ON

Nik - KOTM wrote:Now the question I ask is would you like to see the 10 figure map reference reduced to 6 figures and encourage the use of sighting compasses again?

Yes. We would. Providing that all boxes sited have accurate bearings, sited with sighting compasses...

Sowerby Streaker wrote:Kountry Kit at the meet yesterday were selling off their last few Silva 54 sighting compasses. He said Silva were not going to make any more because now that the GPS's were getting cheaper, people were buying those instead of sighting compasses.

Shock and awe. If this is true, and the Expedition 54 is finished, buy em up now everyone!! Why would they stop entirely?? Do they sell them at a loss?? What would happen if EGNOS was switched off? Or if the Americans messed their satellites up? Hopefully another compass brand will fill the void Silva will leave. Mapandcompass.co.uk still appear to be the best value retailer of Expedition 54.

Personally I like the 10-fig grid references as it means my dog gets more exercise as I'm not stopping so often to use my compass. That's another way of looking at it isn't it!

Obviously I understand that they make it easier for the LBT and all that but what I would say is that in my opinion Charity walks would get less sales if they didn't put the full 10-fig grid references on there clue sheets. The majority of people that attend the meet expect 10-fig's. Again this is just my opinion from what I have observed and conversations I have had.

Are we Letterboxing or Geocaching??

Letterboxing surely is using a compass?

Geocaching using GPS'r.

GPS is very useful but knowing where one is with map & compass is just as easy, after all we were Letterboxing way before GPS'r!!

my 2 1/2 p worth

Sowerby Streaker wrote:Kountry Kit at the meet yesterday were selling off their last few Silva 54 sighting compasses. He said Silva were not going to make any more because now that the GPS's were getting cheaper, people were buying those instead of sighting compasses.

I think Silva have overpriced their compasses for years now. £60+ for a decent compass. I was tempted to buy one at the Meet but the charity walks took all my pennies.

Gemma
Sorry, but in this thread - not worh 0. p

But there have been some very good points put forward, a lot of which I do agree on.
I, like so many others, have done the transition from a hand held Silva and clues with e.g. 56.78 and somewhat obscure points of reference (often miles (yes - those were the days!) apart or to)
Then came the sighting compass - decidedly more accurate and with the tendency to give a six digit number: 565. 785.
Now we enter the GPS era, accurate enough to get within a short searching area and with the quality of the clue given enhances it's accurracy
To summarise:advantages 1. reduced walk planning
2. intended route planned
3. increased distance travelled or
4. reduced distance travelled and / or
5. increased number of boxes obtainable.
6. Considerably aids those not so young
or not so able.
7. added safety factor - 'waymark' your way
out and 'home position. Bad weather safety
8.easily waymark' items of interst, 'finds' etc.
Disadvantages i. need batteries, and spares.
ii. sometimes loses signal
Sighting compass a. more accurate than a hand held 'ordinary'.
b. very dependant on accuracy of clue degrees
Disadvantages c. can develope a 'bubble' in bezel -reducing
accuracy.
Just a basic point of view. I have loved the challenge of finding boxes the 'old fashioned way' - by compass alone; and the satisfaction of doing so will never be felt achievable when usIng GPS.
As in so many things in life - we have to compromise - if age and disability force this upon us then so be it - at least we can still enjoy!

If you are still young, fit and able then try your mettle using only a compass - in our youger days we had no choice.

TWA

I use both. I was caught out once when the mist suddenly came down and did end up off route by a couple of miles. GPS does had that bit of comfort.

We use both, if the bearings are rubbish then its handy to use the GPS

The Wandering Artist wrote:Gemma
Sorry, but in this thread - not worh 0. p

But there have been some very good points put forward, a lot of which I do agree on.
I, like so many others, have done the transition from a hand held Silva and clues with e.g. 56.78 and somewhat obscure points of reference (often miles (yes - those were the days!) apart or to)
Then came the sighting compass - decidedly more accurate and with the tendency to give a six digit number: 565. 785.
Now we enter the GPS era, accurate enough to get within a short searching area and with the quality of the clue given enhances it's accurracy
To summarise:advantages 1. reduced walk planning
2. intended route planned
3. increased distance travelled or
4. reduced distance travelled and / or
5. increased number of boxes obtainable.
6. Considerably aids those not so young
or not so able.
7. added safety factor - 'waymark' your way
out and 'home position. Bad weather safety
8.easily waymark' items of interst, 'finds' etc.
Disadvantages i. need batteries, and spares.
ii. sometimes loses signal
Sighting compass a. more accurate than a hand held 'ordinary'.
b. very dependant on accuracy of clue degrees
Disadvantages c. can develope a 'bubble' in bezel -reducing
accuracy.
Just a basic point of view. I have loved the challenge of finding boxes the 'old fashioned way' - by compass alone; and the satisfaction of doing so will never be felt achievable when usIng GPS.
As in so many things in life - we have to compromise - if age and disability force this upon us then so be it - at least we can still enjoy!

If you are still young, fit and able then try your mettle using only a compass - in our youger days we had no choice.

TWA

not sure why worth 0p.

We have GPSr & Sighting Compass each. We use both but for different Hobbies. We started Boxing using only Map & Compass & did not once get lost. Mist came down many a time... still knew where we were. GPSr's are magic & one knows where one is, but the point of the poll was I thought for one to state a preference & make a comment, which I did. Young days Oh yes please, we will continue to use Map & compass & keep the GPSr in our Ruckie.

A very relevant point was raised - this is down to the americans.... and how long are these satellites going to transmit... I have heard 2018 to 2024 that is when the batteries are due to expire. I know the new generation of satellites are already up there... and guess what ... they work on a different frequency!

Do you remember the early days of sat nav handsets? They had a deliberate error introduced heaven only knows why...

Forgot to mention one very important advantage of GPS - in a way its accuracy means the boxer is less likely to tear apart a large area of the moor for a box (inconsiderately hidden so as to cause a forage) - e.g. in a'' mossy clump'' where there are hundreds!

This means being environmental friendly as well as boxing 'code of conduct'!

TWA

The Wandering Artist wrote:Forgot to mention one very important advantage of GPS - in a way its accuracy means the boxer is less likely to tear apart a large area of the moor for a box (inconsiderately hidden so as to cause a forage) - e.g. in a'' mossy clump'' where there are hundreds!

This means being environmental friendly as well as boxing 'code of conduct'!

TWA

Don't agree that GPSr's are accurate enough to stop tear apart the environment. They are less accurate that a sighting Compass in my view.

Compass is not reliant having no or little cloud cover. It also depends on the make and model of the GPS.

mmmm disagree there Gemma, there are pros and cons for both. Our GPS which is a real cheapy works in clouds and rain, and works when there is minimal viewing, when a sighting compass can't work in the mist.
Take your pick, as long as every one is happy.

Since when does "cloud cover" affect a GPS? I always carry a GPS and it can find a fix usually with a 10ft accuracy even if the visibility is almost less then that due to driving rain, snow or fog. Even the GPS module on my phone works fine in the rain.

Tamerton Chocolates wrote:Since when does "cloud cover" affect a GPS? I always carry a GPS and it can find a fix usually with a 10ft accuracy even if the visibility is almost less then that due to driving rain, snow or fog. Even the GPS module on my phone works fine in the rain.

It affects our old Etrex Yellow, but not our Vista (HCX) different technology.
Agree can't use a sighting compass in the mist.

Agree for & against. I use compass for Letterbox.

Both have their pros and cons - the only thing I definitely use my sat nav for is where I park the car. It was extremely useful on one occasion when the cloud came down and visibility was zero, but I still prefer to use a compass for boxing as it forces me to look around and admire the scenery

'It affects our old Etrex Yellow, but not our Vista (HCX) different technology.'

Never noticed that on my Etrex. I would take it back if I were you.....

foxy wrote:'It affects our old Etrex Yellow, but not our Vista (HCX) different technology.'

Never noticed that on my Etrex. I would take it back if I were you.....

Lucky you!!!! Why would I take it back???

Because you seem to have bought one of the prototype WWUC systems which were trialled and binned by the military some years ago.

Hang on to it, then. Could be a collectors' item.......

foxy wrote:Because you seem to have bought one of the prototype WWUC systems which were trialled and binned by the military some years ago.

Hang on to it, then. Could be a collectors' item.......

Excuse me but you are talking Rubbish!! We have between us An Etex Yellow 2 Vista HCX & anOregon 550, all will show different co-ords, & when we Geo cache with friends they have an Oregon 550 & Vista HXC again we will be at a different point on the earth. Not too far away agreed but NEVER at the same point. Rain & Cloud DO have an effect on GPSrs as does the Sun Buildings valleys indoors etc.

That said the point I still am making is that Letterboxings is about Map & compass!!!!

Ah. You're probably right, then. I would still hang on to that copy of Observers' Book of Reptiles which had the grass snake and adder photos swapped by mistake. That'll be worth a mint.......

Oh, and if you fancy a GPS (or more traditional navigation) course, I've been doing them for a number of years for military, civilian and rescue group clients. Would love to have your company.....

foxy wrote:Ah. You're probably right, then. I would still hang on to that copy of Observers' Book of Reptiles which had the grass snake and adder photos swapped by mistake. That'll be worth a mint.......

Oh, and if you fancy a GPS (or more traditional navigation) course, I've been doing them for a number of years for military, civilian and rescue group clients. Would love to have your company.....

Oh Please don't patronise me.!!! Oh & by the way we DO know the difference between a grass snake & an adder.

ummmmm... looks like we need some Magic happy pills in this exchange of messages.

It's quite simple: Use what ever you feel happy using, whether it be Compass, Satnav, sun, stars, moon or your gut feel... just let it be fun.

MagicHarry wrote:ummmmm... looks like we need some Magic happy pills in this exchange of messages.

It's quite simple: Use what ever you feel happy using, whether it be Compass, Satnav, sun, stars, moon or your gut feel... just let it be fun.

Yep agree. Happy pills may be the answer

Were with you on that.

look like it is a 4 to 1 in favour of the compass