Where have all the Boxes gone
The Ghost Returns
2015-05-26 19:36:23
I started boxing in 1998 and would go onto the moor without any grid references or charity walks and just by poking around under rocks would end up with anything up to 20 boxes at the end of the day. These were usually ammunition boxes, before the change to plastic containers.
I found this to be a very enjoyable day on the moor.
Having just come back from doing 4 days of charity walks I find that I had only 6 additional boxes.
So - Is Letterboxing in the decline due to the Letterboxing thieves or the ageing of its members.
whoisthechallenger
2015-05-26 20:29:42
I think there are many reasons... you highlight two.
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Letterboxing has certainly changed - evolved, perhaps - since 1998, but well done on finding your 6 extras!
Box Hunter
2015-06-01 18:48:21
As you say, the vast majority of letterboxes these days are in the small plastic tubs. These are so much easier to hide than the ammo tins, and with the risk of theft, owners are taking a great deal of care in hiding their boxes well. The chances of finding them at random are much lower now than was the case twenty years ago. That said, there are far more boxes out there now than there were then. The number in the catalogue is probably about the same (please correct me if I'm wrong; I don't have my old catalogues to hand), and there is a much higher number of word of mouth boxes these days.
I use GPS most of the time when doing charity walks. While I do zigzag around between boxes to check under likely rocks, I think the fact that I am essentially on a direct route right to my target, without circling around an area to get all the bearings right, means that I miss out on quite a bit of the coincidental hunting that used to produce the chance finds.
smartieb
2015-06-03 13:55:49
Changing the post slightly! glad it is not just me that seems to zig zag on charity walks then, i always go armed with additional box information and always seem to do double what the 'charity walk' distance quoted.
Back to the original topic hope this letterboxing pastime isnt all doom and doom. Only been boxing for about 4 years so hope i havent joined too late. Always have emense joy in finding the older boxes and feel privaledged that a few older more experienced boxers (although i have never met them in person) have accepted me as one of them and a freely happy to exhange clues with me.
I am doing my best to keep the younger children interested and take me with them whenever i can (i leave them at home for my longer expeditions) but take them on the chairty / shorter tor search walks. I am hoping at least one on them carries on with it to look after the boxes we site if they survive. Just hope there is enough of us to continue this past time, pass it on to future generations, dartmoor stays open to the masses. It is one of the most friendly, pleasurable past times i have par taken in and always jealous of the people managing to get up to the moors when i am stuck in work.
I find the search & stamping of a stamp that some one has taken the time to make, site, organise etc more pleasurable than the geocaches i find around on my walks
You never know letterboxing may go the way of the vinyl record! Just when you think is nearing the end back it comes!
Nik - KOTM
2015-07-05 09:28:21
The feeling I get was in part caused by the 100 club book being reduced to a 5 year limit for a box to be sited on the moor. Even back when I started in 1991, we had the problem with the Letterbox thief, but on a smaller scale.
The problems with letterboxing these days, in my opinion, is down to numerous factors. The cost of getting onto the moors, the DLT, farmers clearing areas of boxes, the quality of stamps, the enthusiasm level dropping and domination of geocaching.
The reduction of clues in the catalogue was understandable as a cost cutting exercise, otherwise we would be paying at least twice as much for a book four times thicker than we have today.
We all know how expensive it is to get on to the moors these days
We all know about the DLT
Understandably a lot of the farmers don't like people wandering over their land during lambing season, so to get them off removing the boxes is the logical choice.
The quality of stamps... well with so many stamps now being commercially available, repetitions are inevitable, and most of these stamps seem irrelevant.
Enthusiasm... Well there are those of us who still love the hobby, but it is noticeable that there aren't as many practicing the hobby. I recall the days during the meet you could barely move, today it is easy to get a seat.
Finally Geocaching... I have no problem with those who wish to geocache, but it is the method of swapping bits inside of the container for some other rubbish, and often letterboxes are mistaken for a Cache box.
Freemans of the Moor
2015-07-07 11:38:24
I started letterboxing in the New Forest in 1990 and then discovered Dartmoor after being made redundant in 1992, the system that was used at that time for receiving clues and collating boxes was from the half yearly catalogue and the monthly updates from Tony Moore.
Nothing has changed much since that time apart from the progression of receiving clues or other information by E mail and the personal use of computers.
Added to this was our increasing involvement with Word of Mouth clues which also required planning, solving, plotting, and recording all this information. At our peak we were in contact and receiving clues, from over 100 boxers who were planting W.o.M. boxes. Many of these clues initially came by post, not by e mail.
This system is now seriously behind the times.
Many very active Boxers (including us) live near to Dartmoor and it is our observation that some of this group have either retired from letterboxing or have gone in other directions. It’s not the price of fuel that has put them off. They live locally and represent most of the hardcore of Dartmoor letterboxing.
If we want to encourage new blood and youth to continue this hobby after we have left, letterboxing must offer a more modern package.
Just listening to the Grandchildren when they talk; Face book, Twitter, Tablets, I Phones, Skype and computers as almost an everyday language and usage.
To attract the next generation, letterboxing needs to consider this.
We realize that there are some long established boxers who will never change their attitude, being if it was good enough for them in the old days, when they started, then that the way it should stay.
We started to Geo cache locally a couple of years ago when, because of the prevailing weather, a day on Dartmoor was not enjoyable or practical but then on better days we returned to our Letterboxing.
From our observations many other big names in Dartmoor boxing (and the New Forest) have gone the same route, some of them totally.
It’s an extremely modern way to hunt. No waiting for monthly updates. New clues are published daily and go into the system automatically; they are usually given grids and have a local map. This can also show the location of every other nearby Cache? All the paper work is done for you. Even to read the logs for each cache and its current state and condition. It’s a Global site, so say you live in Nottingham and can only manage a couple of annual visits to the Moor, you can still hunt for “pill pots” locally.
From our knowledge the "thief" does not have Dartmoor caches as a target.
New Forest Boxing is now down to just under 60 members. No new younger members have joined recently.
If Letterboxing is going to survive, (that includes Dartmoor, The New Forest, The South Downs, North Yorkshire Moors, Exmoor, Brecon Beacons etc.) it must modernise and move in a similar direction.
whoisthechallenger
2015-07-07 12:56:10
Some interesting thoughts there. Thanks for sharing.
I must agree that Dartmoor Letterboxing has to change if it is to survive long term.
I've said before that it could could possibly follow the American example where Letterboxing took off in the '90s. It emerged in the age of the internet, with boxes sited across a whole nation, and this led to a system reliant on the web. Just take a look at the home pages of http://www.atlasquest.com/ or http://www.letterboxing.org. The latter recently boosted funds for the site using Kickstarter (a crowd funded campaign). Letterboxers can contribute clues and report back on the box status online, and that information is instantly accessible to all (who've registered).
If the update (as we know it) were to become a fluid, accessible, relevant platform for Letterboxes, surely this will make the hobby more attractive to new participants. Progression in the last 20 years include clues via email, the online forum, GPS, and they've all proved useful. I suppose it all comes down to what everyone
Nik - KOTM
2015-07-11 11:41:59
In a major way I agree with you, letterboxing really does need to catch up with the 21st century.
It is really appreciated that the updates are available by email instead of the snail mail method we used to have, and to me that is the only major change the letterboxing has done... however, it also took a huge step backwards... none of the blame lies with the 100 club organisation, and that is to have the updates once a month, instead of fortnightly. The fault lies with us, not enough new boxes, and falling letterboxer numbers.
The letterboxing heyday was back in the mid 90's when there was anything upto 80,000 boxes sited on the moor, the number is probably nearer 15000 today. The number of us boxing I think has deteriorated by 60%, mainly due to atttrition, past members no longer being able to walk the miles we used to, or due to crossing the bar.
What we need now, is a proper discussion on how would you improve boxing on Dartmoor?
Sowerby Streaker
2015-07-11 13:32:10
I agree with some of the comments above but not all. Any discussion on the way forward has to include the 100 club organisers. Any changes to the way the clues are handled has to be agreed by them and as we all know there are some at the top who will not change their ways. The one thing we would all like to get to grips with is the LBT. Nothing will go on line whilst he/she is lying in wait. Everyone is suspicious of everyone else and until that changes, I don't think anything else will with the club.
smartieb
2015-07-12 20:28:31
What a shame I missed the heyday you are speaking off. A relative newcomer of 'only' 4 years boxing
I agree that in some ways the dealing of clues etc needs to become a little more technology based whilst maintaining vigilance of the DLT as I am sure he is techno savy. How many of the 'original letterboxers' would ever thought of the day when a little handheld unit (gps or smartphone) to within a couple of paces of box sited in the middle of the moors?, clues exchanged electronically etc
With reference to a previous comment with regards geocaching the idea of online clues with nearly realtime updates sounds appealing, but was a little put off by the way 'all known' geocaches in the area are instantly available, and a near perfect route obtained.
Totally agree a few changes need to be made, but personally part of enjoyment to me is sitting in front of a computer for an hour or so plotting a rout to walk, either on a paper map or the computer, then getting out there and following it. Even when you think you know all the boxes you are going to find/not find the excitement of finding an 'unknown' box is always there.
I am sure all letterboxers have or do use technology to varying degrees to either suit themselves or because they are techno savy but if we are not careful it could become another virtual world where no one ventures onto the moors and surely that's the whole point.
I am not sure how many wom letterboxers would be happy to publish clues online where they can be viewed by all with the number of boxes that go missing due to the DLT?
Sowerby Streaker
2015-07-13 08:38:19
Well said and totally agree - when I am putting clues in my WOM program, I almost know from the clue the rock that it is under! Covered most of the moors over the years and enjoyed the feeling of finding a box using just a compass, plugged in the ground in the middle of Wildbanks Hill. I also still enjoy 'walking' to a box with a GPS, 9 times out of 10 you still have to search around for the box. I would say its a definate NO to WOM owners putting their clues on line. Some of them don't even share with other WOM owners, even though they are happy to receive others clues.
The LBT is still very active - just had email to say 4 new boxes put out a couple of weeks ago have all been stolen from the Staple tors area. So a definate NO again to online clues from me.
Totally agree with comments from above. Having boxed since the early 80s I have seen changes from clues on cards to the computer and programmes able to print clues in a given area, also from total reliance on a sighting compass to get a box, to walking to a box with a GPS. I know of boxers who still rely on the card system rather than use a computer . If things went totally on line it would disadvantage some boxers and no one has suggested how this would be run, it would be a lot of work for someone. There is a saying if it isn't broke don't fix it, and I believe it isn't broke but the fall off in clues is as others say due to boxers getting older and unable to get about so much. Finding somewhere to get stamps made and the cost is another factor. Youngsters also have competing demands on their time and I don't think other GPS and phone led activities have a high uptake from youngsters either. I still get a sense of achievement when the clue is only 4 figure and a compass has to be used to get the box. That is what letterboxing is all about.
bog_baby
2015-09-05 18:03:00
I hate using a compass and hunting around blindly knowing it's under one of about 50 different rocks that all look the same to me, so although I started with letterboxing I have gone over almost completely to geocaching (we also only visit the moors a few times a year when visiting family). I have never found a box using either the catalogue or charity walks, that's how rubbish I am (or maybe they have been taken as there is no way to check), but with geocaching I often find the caches or know if they are missing and while people on here tend to say they are just plastic boxes full of junk (and there are plenty of letterboxes like that too)they are always evolving - we had a gnome series the other day where the caches were garden gnomes, we have put out a headless horseman trackable in a Dartmoor cache and have found personally designed pathtags which can be kept and collected. I would like to see letterboxing move forward to ensure the tradition continues but I think it needs to be made more accessible, the LBT is thriving despite keeping it off line and the WOM lot wouldn't tell me their secrets anyway so I would be all for it moving online although I guess it would be a huge undertaking that may just be too difficult to organise. It's sad to feel it is limping along though and widely ignored by the younger generation when it is such a fantastic tradition. xxxx
Nik - KOTM
2015-09-30 06:06:41
Interesting comments. Now, what would
Of course none of this is nothing more than ideas. It is up to the 100 Club to take it further, but without ideas, nothing can improve