Turned to the dark side......got me thinking.....

General letterboxing discussion.

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Dartymoor
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Post by Dartymoor »

Some of us clearly are bothered!

But perhaps the majority aren't, or like myself, cannot see a way to reconcile the problems and the people.

My view is that thefts have increased dramatically over the past few years and this is more of a problem than it has been, and frustrating when technology has tools to add another layer to letterboxing (computer organisation, email and gps location) which could make reporting and updating quicker, easier and more accurate - but, well, if you *do* change letterboxing to that you both alienate those who would very much like how they do it now, have lots of WOM contacts and don't see a need to change; and, well, you do bring it very close to what geocaching is and there is no point to that since geocaching is already here.

I'm comfy in bed waiting for the Rugby to start so I'll expand... :)

Letterboxes come in three flavours that I know of;

1. Listed, hand-cut interesting stamps in the book.
2. WOM boxes put out for a small circle of friends.
3. Kids boxes with shop-bought stamps, often in poor containers and poorly sited.

Let's consider the future of letterboxing for a moment. How does a new boxer get infected with this enjoyment?

The kids boxes might have a casual interest but I don't think will engage people in the same way. They're often seen as litter and in some areas it's easy to see why. Parents may want to do something fun for their child and put another out, and it may even get checked, although from my observations they're most likely to find a soggy logbook due to a chinese takeaway container being used or something similarly unrobust!

If they find a hand-cut stamp, they may well appreciate the work and effort gone into it and perhaps the story behind it or the location and search for more (how I started). But with these listed in the book going missing, if they do look through the book they may get dispirited and frustrated and give up becuase they're not there. (Stolen, cleared, not updated). Also because of the work involved in "proper" stamps, it must be very dispiriting to know it's been nicked.

I don't know much about playing the WOM game, despite having been to several meets and been letterboxing for over twenty years (albiet most of those lost to other things!) because I'm a solitary walker and not that sociable. WOM is a hard thing to get into, although I'm sure is more engaging once you're "in". When I have asked someone, I was told that since they didn't know me well enough they wouldn't give me anything. Fair enough, I understand that, but it means this is an aspect I'm unlikely to be involved with.

Oh, just remembered a fourth - the charity series. These seem as popular and as well maintained as ever and I've done several with the wife this winter and enjoyed them very much. (Although curious why nobody's selling these on the internet via an online shop? Pay your money, get sent the sheet immediately, money gets sent to the charity collector or direct.)

So of the future, will letterboxing become mostly kids boxes littering a few roadside tors? Will the thefts have a real impact on the enjoyment - if listing them in a book cause them to get stolen more often, does that threaten the future of the book? I'm unlikely to buy the spring book since so many of those I've tracked down over the winter have not been there (about 50%), am I alone?

All hobbies need new blood coming in to survive. Do we have it?
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Sowerby Streaker
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Post by Sowerby Streaker »

I can answer a couple of your points - yes there is new blood coming into letterboxing all the time. Children that started with their parents are now grown up and off letterboxing on their own. As to getting into the WOM circuit that is a very easy thing to do. Do you have any boxes out on the moors of your own?? A new member on this forum emailed me the same question and I have helped him get into the WOM circuit. He went to the trouble of making his own hand cut stamps - absolutley beautiful work of 'beasts on Dartmoor'. he put 8 out, then asked me to get in touch with my own list of WOM who would like to swap clues. I went and checked his walk, quality of stamps, clues etc. and once satisfied he was a genuine son who was more than interested in just putting 'shop' bought stamps put, I gave his email address to several of my friends who I knew had boxes out and who would swap once I had verified the stamps. I think to date he has been inundated with clues and quite a lot of the 'old school' boxers have been out, done the walk and have added him to their own lists.
So please don't moan about the WOM people - get out and do something about it. Put some boxes out with decent stamps in, good clues, then get in touch with someone you know who has boxes out (with me if you like) and get your details passed around. The clues will come flying in once your stamps and clues have been verified. You won't get any clues by just lying in bed typing away :wink: Just to say though that I did not give any email addresses away, I do it the other way around. This boxer allowed me to give his email address to anyone interested in getting in touch with him. That way it was up to them to make contact or not.
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Post by Brinnie »

Well done SS. good posting, but I am afraid people who may have started letterboxing in the past few years, may have gone to the darker side!!
Much easier that way, it is just sitting there on a website.
M
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Post by Nik - KOTM »

Another way of getting onto the WOM circuit is when you find a WOM box is to get back to the owner of the box letting them know the condition of the box - especially if it has a email contact or phone number and to let them know. You them discreetly ask them if they have any clues they might let you have.
If you are bold enough to ask them if they have contact details for other boxers that they are willing to let you have. This is a slow method and uphill work for the majority of it. If you are a newbie then that climb is going to be near vertical!
Be prepared to be rejected, ignored or even told to eff off.
OK I had the advantage of being reasonably known in the letterboxing fraternity, and knowing a few of the "right people". Doing this netted me the best part of 8,000 clues, this took me a year to accumulate.
Don't ask, don't get is the way I look at life
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Dartymoor
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Post by Dartymoor »

Brinnie wrote:Well done SS. good posting, but I am afraid people who may have started letterboxing in the past few years, may have gone to the darker side!!
Much easier that way, it is just sitting there on a website.
M
Well, yes - and no. You still have to go out into the same area and look for the same sort of thing (usually). The benefits are that you are more certain it's there since you can see when it was last found. Doesn't guarantee it is there, of course, but they're more actively monitored. And don't think it's all easy - some have fiendish puzzles that need to be solved before you can work out the final coordinates, or need several boxes visited to get to the final. I'm trying not to promote GC too much as this is not the place, but there is a lot of variety and some assumptions are probably wrong.

Also - don't assume GC is the enemy, don't forget that some letterboxers may have come into this through geocaching - I wouldn't think it's all traffic out.

SS and Nik - yep, good points, and good to see them written down somewhere. It's not common knowledge WOM even exists, let alone how to get into it! I do have one letterbox out there, but I heard from it's first finder (some 5 months after it was placed, and theirs was the first log, and it's only because they geocache as well as letterbox like I do that they recognised my name and got in touch!) that it's letting some damp in and I'll probably be removing it next time I'm passing.
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Post by Tamerton Chocolates »

I have to say I am getting less interested in both activities.

The glut of geocaches these days are either of the type (no offence to the apparent large number of people who joined geocaching in the last year or two that seem to enjoy this sort of stuff);

- "look how clever I can hide a tiny box - why don't you finders lick my arse on a public forum to show everyone how clever you are that you were able to find it - extra brownie points if you also give it a 'favourite'"

- "the minimum distance between caches allowed is .1 of a mile - I'll place 253 (or any arbitrary number - as long as it is high enough) in a so-called 'power-loop' all .1000001 mile apart from eachother"

- "I have an iphone with a crappy GPS reception and I'll chuck a few small film pots around the neighbourhood in the most uninspiring locations you can imagine"

It is rare to find one these days that takes you out to a lovely spot that you have not visited before and would otherwise probably not have discovered. (and that doesn't necessarily need to be in the middle of nowhere)


As for letterboxing - I am not really interested in the social aspect - so WOM clues are hard to get - although I always report back if there is an email addy in a box I find and some people (but that is the minority) respond by giving me a few more clues. I stopped buying the cluebook as these boxes really don't exist when you look for them and as a result can't do charity walks either as they aren't published anywhere else.

So I find myself more and more just walking the dogs on my own out on the moor and having a bit of a scavenge without any gadgets and maps. It does mean the number of letterboxes found on a walk is only small - but they are almost always nice finds. A lot of old ones that are rarely been found and quite a high number of them are hand-made.
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Post by Sowerby Streaker »

So T.C. after reading your response above - can I ask why you remain a member of this Letterboxing site????? If you are not interested in letterboxing, seems rather strange that you would want to be on here :roll:
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Post by Tamerton Chocolates »

I am not sure to be honest ... lets see how this remove member thing works ..

edit: seems I can't remove myself ..
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Post by bog_baby »

Sowerby Streaker wrote:So T.C. after reading your response above - can I ask why you remain a member of this Letterboxing site????? If you are not interested in letterboxing, seems rather strange that you would want to be on here :roll:
I thought letterboxing got off rather lightly after the bashing geocaching got :lol: you were rather harsh though SS :shock: and eye rolling at people is REALLY rude in my opinion - just because someone is an occassional boxer who does it as they go out for a walk shouldn't mean they can't air their views on this forum. Perhaps you need a visit to hardcore boxers anonymous :?
TC's I really like you for 2 reasons - 1 you have chocolate in your name and it's delicious and 2 I have a choc lab/collie cross, see you are appreciated really :)
Dartymoor
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Post by Dartymoor »

Staying quiet on this one, since TC seems to have somehow taken offense at my caches (although neither small nor "clever!") and what I write...

I'm a bit sad they feel this way about all of GC and Letterboxing though, but as with any hobby, if it doesn't make you happy, what's the point?
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Post by brinbunny »

I would like to put my 2p in.

Good luck to Geocachers - I have given it a bash here in B/stoke, there is a very cleverly hidden one in a well known supermarket carpark!
HOWEVER
I did find a very badly hidden cache on the path up to the moor from the fox and hounds, It was so plain that any non boxing walker would trip over.

I have also found several boxes on several tors that are so close to each other I can be sat on a rock getting the stamp - look up and 3 rocks away I can see another box! So it is not just Geocahe's that are too close together.

Not a fan of uploading all my 'finds' to a website but do love the way that you can tell if a box is damaged, missing or put back with an incorrect bearing a lot faster than with letterboxes.

So I am in the live and let live camp - but I will swear loudly when I am competing with DS to get the 1st box of the day or most boxes that day in total and that fab pot I pull out is not a letterbox :lol:
The Basingstoke letterboxers - Tim and Ruth WE GOT 100 BOXES - WHOOP WHOOP - onwards and upwards . . . . .
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Post by Tamerton Chocolates »

Dartymoor wrote:Staying quiet on this one, since TC seems to have somehow taken offense at my caches (although neither small nor "clever!") and what I write...
No offence intented DM .. I had read something you wrote in the wrong context that was all :) .. I can only add to the last poster who states live & let live .. I'll still do both activities - it is just a shame the enjoyment isn't always at the same level as a few years ago ..
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Post by Gemma »

bog_baby wrote:
Sowerby Streaker wrote:So T.C. after reading your response above - can I ask why you remain a member of this Letterboxing site????? If you are not interested in letterboxing, seems rather strange that you would want to be on here :roll:
I thought letterboxing got off rather lightly after the bashing geocaching got :lol: you were rather harsh though SS :shock: and eye rolling at people is REALLY rude in my opinion - just because someone is an occassional boxer who does it as they go out for a walk shouldn't mean they can't air their views on this forum. Perhaps you need a visit to hardcore boxers anonymous :?
TC's I really like you for 2 reasons - 1 you have chocolate in your name and it's delicious and 2 I have a choc lab/collie cross, see you are appreciated really :)
I thought letterboxing got off rather lightly after the bashing geocaching got Humm guess you don't read the GC forums then.

SS I would suggest is just airing their view, as I am. Rolling eyes in my view is not rude :roll: :roll:

There is good & bad in both hobbies but in my view far more bad in GCing!
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Post by Sowerby Streaker »

Thanks Gemma - the rolling eyes smiley was not intended to be used as an insult to anyone. The smileys on this forum are there to lighten and brighten, up our posts.

To Bog Baby -you quoted - Perhaps you need a visit to hardcore boxers anonymous
For your info, I am a hard core boxer and have been since the early 1980's. I have now nearly 29,000 stamps in my collection, so think that qualifies me as a dedicated boxer, so no need for me to visit anywhere other than on the moors which I love. Wonder how many boxes you have collected so far :?: :D
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Post by Nik - KOTM »

TC I find your comments quite refreshing, I hope you don't really wish to leave the forum. It would definitely be a poorer place without you.
The Letterboxing community really is a forum for people who love Dartmoor, not just boxing, though boxing is the primary "sport" on the moor.
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