Missing Letterbox's

General letterboxing discussion.

Moderator: Moderators

teignmouth trampers
Hiker
Hiker
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: teignmouth,devon

Missing Letterbox's

Post by teignmouth trampers »

This seems to be a growing problem, or perhaps its just us. We were out boxing on saturday and couldn't find two box's although we were clearly in the correct spot, where they had been was obvious. Contacting the owners we found that they had been stolen by person or persons unknown. Last month someone sent us a WOM walk and within a week before we had chance to do it, they e mailed us to say that the first 6 out of 10 box's had already disapeared! ! The problem with box's in the book is of course that anyone can buy the book and then if they wish remove box's, but with a WOM its more than likely someone on the mailing list. As newcomers to boxing having now put out our first few we know how much time, effort and money is involved. Its really annoying that people probably within the boxing community, or ostensibly so are so warped as to want to remove them, spoiling the pleasure and enjoyment for everyone else. Its also something thats difficult to detect, because if you come across someone with a box in their hands you will naturally assume they are logging it or perhaps putting it out. But I really would love to catch someone.
Lyn, Arth and Millie the Jack Russell.
User avatar
devon steamer
Ambler
Ambler
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:19 pm
Location: lee mill

Post by devon steamer »

I think everyone on this forum will agree to that,i just cant understand what they would do with them,i can imagine a room with loads of other peoples stamps in,its sick.
The Wandering Artist
Trekker
Trekker
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:13 am

Missing Letterbox's

Post by The Wandering Artist »

Last Tuesday checked on 4 of my boxes - 1 new box missing, 1 old box (been on the site 14 years - re released clue ) now missing!
Today checked on a box that has been out 15 years - reported on site just over a year ago after clue re released. Now missing!

I can spend as much as 5 to 10 hours to cut a stamp - at present day rates of minimum wage that represents £ 40 plus. You can get a ready made A4 sheet for something like half that price! To lose a stamp is expensive - but that has to be acceptable in the long run or no stamps would be sited.

Little wonder that there are only a few of us 'carvers' left.

You give your clue to those you trust and no doubt they pass on to those they trust. (with or without your consent)But the others trust is not to you - hence the clue becomes widespread.If You could go back to the 'old days' of 4 or 6 digit map ref - no point though as someone 'in the line' will convert to GPS and pass on!

Sorry to say it but the resposibility lies with the boxer who passes on clues indiscriminately either to be 'popular' and / or to gain others trust and clues!

On a personal note: to the LBT (or whoever it is) - taking my boxes has no effect on me at all, if that is your intention. I derive pleasure in the cutting and seeing the end result. You are only depriving fellow boxers / others of stamps, that is all.

TWA
User avatar
The Sly Fox
Trekker
Trekker
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:52 pm
Location: Plymouth

Post by The Sly Fox »

devon steamer wrote:I think everyone on this forum will agree to that,i just cant understand what they would do with them,i can imagine a room with loads of other peoples stamps in,its sick.
In my opinion, I do not think that there is a letterbox thief. I think there are many of them.
I reckon there are those that don't understand what letterboxes are and take off with them. Those that own the land and do not appreciate boxes on or near what they own. Those that disagree with letterboxes being on the moor and remove them. And those that are just purely malicious, and they must include the taking of WOM boxes.
The trouble is, as TWA has already stated, it is only too easy to find them now with GPS.

But what really baffles me more than anything ... is why waste so much time in trying to sabotage somebody else's hobby.
At least we letterboxers outnumber them !!
This fox is the hunter, not the hunted !!
1,578 and counting ...
Nik - KOTM
Site Admin
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:21 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Post by Nik - KOTM »

I sadly have to agree with about the GPS, but, I also think the curse of the commercially available stamps, the actions of a few "established" letterboxers and some of the local farmers are are all having detrimental effect on a once popular hobby. Then on top of that there is the dartmoor letterbox thieves note the plural!

Back when I started there were not very many commercial stamps and the few that were around were deemed as rubbish, but left onsite. When Dartmoor became swamped with the commercial boxes boxes started to go missing on a much more regular basis, now this loss seems to have stepped up yet another gear.
From the farmer aspect, I can understand why the want to get boxes off the moor as it can affect the livestock on the moor. This was the reason why all the stamps around Yellowmead disappeared.
I don't know what the solution is, perhaps using 6 figure references might go towards a solution. But I do know a lot of the WOM boxers no longer send out the clues to me anymore, as they no longer trust anyone which I can understand and sympathise with.
Because of the increasing amount of missing boxes I think the clue book will eventually disappear, and clues will only be available online via email or printed sheets
Nik 245 to go
Image
teignmouth trampers
Hiker
Hiker
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: teignmouth,devon

Post by teignmouth trampers »

I think with WOM box's if you send them to people you trust ( and obviously you do or why send them out) you now have to insist that they are not passed on to anyone else. I'm afraid I don't agree about commercial stamps increase being part of the problem, thats not because we use them, because we don't, but some people derive pleasure ( often, but not exclusively children) from putting them out, thats to be encouraged as the more kids who realise that letterboxing is fun ,the less potential future LBT's there will be. We also don't think that GPS is the problem, OK it does make box's easier to find ( thank GOD), but often the missing ones are not on GPS co-ordinates. As for farmers, I can't see why they would wish to remove box's, animals can't usually get at them, but then you would also have to ask why they would remove signposts, and close paths? Some of them, I agree a minority, have a lot to answer for, as do some walkers who don't control their dogs etc.
Lyn, Arth and Millie the Jack Russell.
User avatar
UniS
Hiker
Hiker
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:26 pm
Location: Northern edge o t'moor

Post by UniS »

To add to the list of "letter box thief's" there is the person who removes from the moor a box that is broken and no longer watertight with a sodden to pulp log book and damaged beyond printing stamp.

After a hard winter That could apply to quite a lot of boxes.
Wheres it to ?
Nik - KOTM
Site Admin
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:21 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Post by Nik - KOTM »

If an area is cleared by a farmer, the average boxer will soon get the message that there are no boxes in the area and move on elsewhere, not only does this action make the area less trampled, it reduces the amount of litter that has to be picked up.
Since the two legged animal is by far and away the messiest creature on the planet, with a lot of city/town dwellers in particular having been brought up with the 'someone is paid to clear this up' attitude.
When I, personally, go out on the moor I will pick up some bit of rubbish and file it in the correct container, yet some of the stuff I have found on the moor completely baffles me for example a caravans septic tank over a mile from any road - someone had to carry it there in the first place to dump it!
The worst stuff for litter is plastic especially those filled with dog mess and sweet wrappers.
I am not tarring every letterboxers with this brush, but the one I will do that with is local wear and tear, if a box is in a hole (which it usually is) 90% of the time I can find it by the amount of worn out ground next to it.
The day after the last foot and mouth outbreak occurred I went out on the moor and it was wonderful, all the grass had grown back and it felt like I was walking and boxing on virgin territory, yet I still found the odd plastic bag
Nik 245 to go
Image
User avatar
Gemma
Trekker
Trekker
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:35 pm

Post by Gemma »

Nik - KOTM wrote:I sadly have to agree with about the GPS, but, I also think the curse of the commercially available stamps, the actions of a few "established" letterboxers and some of the local farmers are are all having detrimental effect on a once popular hobby. Then on top of that there is the dartmoor letterbox thieves note the plural!

Back when I started there were not very many commercial stamps and the few that were around were deemed as rubbish, but left onsite. When Dartmoor became swamped with the commercial boxes boxes started to go missing on a much more regular basis, now this loss seems to have stepped up yet another gear.
From the farmer aspect, I can understand why the want to get boxes off the moor as it can affect the livestock on the moor. This was the reason why all the stamps around Yellowmead disappeared.
I don't know what the solution is, perhaps using 6 figure references might go towards a solution. But I do know a lot of the WOM boxers no longer send out the clues to me anymore, as they no longer trust anyone which I can understand and sympathise with.
Because of the increasing amount of missing boxes I think the clue book will eventually disappear, and clues will only be available online via email or printed sheets
One wonders if Geocaches go "missing" as often. After all they are all available online and published with GPS's co-ordinates.

Unfortunately they will always be folk that derive pleasure in spoiling others.
We seek them here, we seek them......
Brinnie
Hiker
Hiker
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: Dartmoor

Post by Brinnie »

A few geocaches do go missing but they don’t seem to get the problems of letterboxing, that’s probably because they can use smaller containers as they don’t have a stamp, also no geocache is allowed within 526ft of another, so people are not going to trip over them like letterboxes in certain areas
The Wandering Artist
Trekker
Trekker
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:13 am

Missing Letterbox's

Post by The Wandering Artist »

Re Brinnie`s post:
It was interesting to read and have raised some points:
1. Why do geothingmys have to be over 526 feet minimum apart from another?
2. Do All 'Goethingmyists' have All clues available to them at all times then, if not. then how do they know their 'geowhatsit' is too close to another when they site it?
3. If someone places a 'thingmy' too close to another and others realise this from having the clues to the 'another' - what happens?
Do they inform the owner (s), just mark down the 'error', or maybe remove the offending 'thingmy'.

TWA (letterboxer!)
Brinnie
Hiker
Hiker
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: Dartmoor

Post by Brinnie »

Geocaches can be found on their website geocaching.com, when someone places a cache they fill out all the details with the co-ordinates on the website then submit it to be approved by a reviewer, the reviewer looks on his geocaching map to check is isn’t in a banned area or too close to another cache. This doesn’t matter quite so much in an area like Dartmoor, but it does matter if caches are being placed in a city park, they don’t want the parks to be littered with them.
A cache too close to another will be rejected then it is up to the owner to remove it.
The Wandering Artist
Trekker
Trekker
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:13 am

Missing Letterbox's

Post by The Wandering Artist »

Brinnie

Many thanks for your post, and information.

TWA
User avatar
Gemma
Trekker
Trekker
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:35 pm

Post by Gemma »

Brinnie wrote:A few geocaches do go missing but they don’t seem to get the problems of letterboxing, that’s probably because they can use smaller containers as they don’t have a stamp, also no geocache is allowed within 526ft of another, so people are not going to trip over them like letterboxes in certain areas
Not sure the .1 mile rule makes any difference to the "stolen" ratio. If the DMT is not happy with containers on the Moor then I would guess he/she/they would target them also. As the info is readily available on line then I guess that Geocaches are ann easy target. Perhaps I am just missing the point (not so unusal)
We seek them here, we seek them......
Nik - KOTM
Site Admin
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:21 pm
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Post by Nik - KOTM »

I must admit I wasn't aware of the 526 foot rule, because I found three geocache boxes on Staple Tor within 100 yards of each other - I don't know if they are still there all I know was that due to their size and how they were sited they weren't letterboxes, yet all the established boxes had disappeared from that area. I do remember coming away feeling somewhat frustrated at not finding any stamps.
Nik 245 to go
Image
Post Reply